How Feminism Hurts Women

June 4th, 2009 by Pelle Billing

I recently wrote about how feminsm defines women, and I’d like to follow up with a post about how feminism hurts women – because it does, in very tangible ways.

Here is a brief overview:

  • Women are told that it’s easy to become pregnant after the age of 35, which can lead to intense regret in women who bought into this myth
  • Women are taught that they should never have to worry about rape, regardless of what they wear, where they walk, how they flirt, or even if they bring a stranger back home after a night on the town – which leads to more women being raped. The problem here is that feminism isn’t making the distinction between how things should be and how they actually are. No woman (or man!) should be raped, but since it happens regularly, you need to make wise decisions about how to live your life. (This is similar for every crime there is: it’s not your fault if you’re mugged, but why not try to avoid it by staying clear from dangerous neighbourhoods at night?)
  • Women are told that it’s perfectly possible to combine a high-powered career and having toddlers. This leads to lots of mothers being stressed out, and always feeling guilty for not having enough time for the children. The realistic assessment is that one parent, or both parents, will have to slow down their careers.
  • Many young women study feminism (a k a gender studies or women studies), and as a result discover that they have a newfound sense of anger and hate towards all men. This anger makes it that much harder to create a loving relationship with a man.
  • By spreading factoids about domestic violence and the wage gap, women are made to feel depressed and without hope, since the odds seem to be stacked against them. If the truth was told in the media, then women would see that while there are serious problems in society, both sexes are affected – and all we can do is strive towards a better future.

Since feminism hurts both sexes, it is high time to let go of this ideology, just like the world has let go of communism. The good sides of feminism can easily be included in a gender liberation movement, so we have everything to gain and nothing to lose by allowing feminism to fall by the wayside.

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39 Responses to “How Feminism Hurts Women”

  1. Danny Says:

    I would also add that some women that embrace feminism and end up with an sense of entitlement. As if by virtue of being a woman men as a class owe them something.

  2. SurferGurl Says:

    I’m a feminist. I was raised in a family of feminists who were, more importantly, very sensible people. Although I didn’t get a degree in Women’s Studies, I still know a lot about feminism. And feminism doesn’t have anything to do with any of the things in your list. No feminist taught me, ever, that I could throw caution to the wind and invite strangers into my home. No feminist taught me that I could reasonably wait until the age of 35 to have a child. Yes, I was taught that I could indeed combine a career and motherhood. But I was also taught that it would be a huge undertaking. Most importantly, I was taught that my gender should never be the sole excuse for not being able to do whatever i wanted to do. I was told that just because I was female it didn’t mean that I should be afraid of or to made to feel inferior to males. I was taught that getting married and/or having children was a personal choice and not something I should feel I was expected to do. I never had anybody rattling off statistics about domestic violence to me, but I also never had anybody trying to hit me or hurt me. Once I went out into the world on my own I SAW, with my very own eyes, women who had been subjected to violence in intimate relationships. It didn’t make me hate the abusers (who weren’t always male). It made me more mindful of the nature of domestic violence. I never worried, not once, about how much money I made compared to men because I was taught to be self-confident and have self-worth.

    Your broad generalizations about feminists are inaccurate and stereotypical and do nothing to advance the principles of equality. Meanwhile, since I came to this blog post via reddit.com and am not familiar with your writings, I will browse and see if you have a post resembling anything like “How Feminism Helps Women.”

  3. Pelle Billing Says:

    SurferGurl,

    I too grew up with feminism, and I’ve heard feminists say the points i list time and again.
    Perhaps the difference is that you grew up with equity feminism, and I grew up with radical feminism.

    At this point in time, where men and women have equal rights and opportunities, what is the purpose of feminism in your opinion?

  4. SurferGurl Says:

    I went knocking on doors with my mom when I was a kid, working to educate and encourage people to sign petitions to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment. Those doors were often slammed in our faces — by thoroughly capable, independent, hard-working women. When I was a teenager, Gloria Steinem was my heroine. She always spoke about what it meant to be a woman so matter-of-factly, so logically, that I was amazed when I would still run across someone who clung to their beliefs that just because I was a woman I couldn’t do a certain thing or was expected to behave a certain way. Now I’m on the precipice of my 50th birthday and we have women holding positions of power in government, lots of amazing female athletes, thousands of women performing vital and valuable tasks in the military, female astronauts who contribute greatly to the space program. Hundreds of thousands of women work as police officers, fire fighters and as rescue personnel. Millions of women own their own businesses. There are many female physicians, lawyers and university presidents. There are even a few female race car drivers that are admired by men.

    Why, though, are there not more notable scientists and CEOs who are women? Why are the highest levels of finance still dominated by men? Why are there not more female techhies responsible for wildly successful internet start-ups? Why is it that, in our daily lives, we encounter plenty of male teachers, hair stylists, restaurant servers, nurses, social workers, librarians but we don’t see many women plumbers, heavy equipment operators, auto mechanics or airline pilots?

    I believe feminists still have work to do.

    Any “ism” starts out as a radical concept with radical adherents. As the movement grows and evolves it becomes more mainstream, more integrated into society. Early adapters tend to remain vigilant and focused on core principles. That’s OK because they serve to remind us, when necessary, of how things “used to be.” A prescient example would be the recent murder of Dr. Tiller. The sound and fury of how it was an act of a domestic terrorist, how the perpetrator and his ilk want to go back to the days of reproductive control over women is a vital part of continued enlightenment. The act — and resulting reaction — reminds us that the 1960s and 70s, decades that saw the birth and early growth of feminism, are not the distant past.

  5. Jim Says:

    ” Why is it that, in our daily lives, we encounter plenty of male teachers, hair stylists, restaurant servers, nurses, social workers, librarians but we don’t see many women plumbers, heavy equipment operators, auto mechanics or airline pilots?”

    That settles it – you indeed an equity feminists, as Pelle said. God bless you for that. The world needs a lot more of you.

    Also, the world, or at least the US, needs a lot more male teachers. There really aren’t “plenty of male teachers” (though your general point is still valid). The goal ought to be that 50% of teachers are men at all levels. There ae structural and institutional and cultural barriers to that, withing female-dominated schiools and the educational field as a whole. Feminsts like you are the best position, thoguh not the only one, to make that case.

    “Any “ism” starts out as a radical concept with radical adherents. As the movement grows and evolves it becomes more mainstream, more integrated into society.”

    So far, so good, but it doesn’t stop there. There will always be those in any movement who resist this form of success, because for them the struggle is more important than the final success of the cause – soldiers who never want to come home. You see a lot of this in feminism, and they get a lot of ink. Your point is probably that that doesn’t make them more representative.

  6. Pelle Billing Says:

    Why, though, are there not more notable scientists and CEOs who are women? Why are the highest levels of finance still dominated by men? Why are there not more female techhies responsible for wildly successful internet start-ups? Why is it that, in our daily lives, we encounter plenty of male teachers, hair stylists, restaurant servers, nurses, social workers, librarians but we don’t see many women plumbers, heavy equipment operators, auto mechanics or airline pilots?

    Very good questions, you’ve nailed what I’ve been thinking about a lot myself.

    At this point, the only answer I can think of is biology. Women (as a group) tend to be less interested in hardcore tech stuff as well as devoting their lives to being a CEO. It’s the only reason I can think of, since women have had no trouble entering the domains of medicine and law – to take but two formerly male dominated careers.

    I would also have to agree with Jim and point out that we could definitely use more male teachers and social workers, however, I’m not too hopeful that we’ll see any substantial change anytime soon.

  7. Danny Says:

    Why, though, are there not more notable scientists and CEOs who are women? Why are the highest levels of finance still dominated by men? Why are there not more female techhies responsible for wildly successful internet start-ups? Why is it that, in our daily lives, we encounter plenty of male teachers, hair stylists, restaurant servers, nurses, social workers, librarians but we don’t see many women plumbers, heavy equipment operators, auto mechanics or airline pilots?

    I like what you say Surfer. Lots of feminsts who pose those questions are only concerned about the scientists, CEOs, and other highend/glamourous positions and run silent when it comes to things like more male teachers (which I think it mainly caused by the presumption that men are only around children to abuse them) or female sanitation workers. And to make it worse they seem to think that an exact 50/50 gender split will mean things are okay….in only the areas they complain about.

  8. Jim Says:

    “Why, though, are there not more notable scientists and CEOs who are women? Why are the highest levels of finance still dominated by men? Why are there not more female techhies responsible for wildly successful internet start-ups? ”

    These are three very intersting separate questions, and they are separate.

    “Why, though, are there not more notable (physical?) scientists ” – the explanantion that makes the most sense to me is socialization – becoming a realy successful scientist requires you to be socialized into set of values that conflicts with a lot of the values that lots of girls are socialized into. And I’m not really convinced of that.

    But let’s look at the exceptions. There may not be very many female physicists, but there is a pretty good number of theoretical linguists, maybe approaching real parity. Why the diffenrence? This is just a guess, but it may be the academic equivalent of chain migration – from the very beginning there have always been lots of women in descriptive linguistcs, and probably the most influential one, ever, in that aprticualr filed, Mary Haas, was a woman. Then later, when theoretical linguistics came into existence, female linguists migrated into it just like male linguists did.

    ‘CEOs ” – Doing what it takes to become a CEO of a major corporation deforms your life, and not many people of any gender are really willing to make that sacrifice and all the sacrifices that consitute that sacrifice. maybe in time we will see more and more women making those sacrifices. Time will tell.

    “Why are there not more female techhies responsible for wildly successful internet start-ups? ”

    I think it has something to do with the techie part, because there are lots of women willing to start businesses up. What’s the problem with the techie part? It may be the same problem as with other sciences, as I mention above. Dunno.

  9. SurferGurl Says:

    My feeling is that many of the science disciplines that are dominated by men are difficult fields for women to break into. Not because of the rigors of the science, but because of the “good old boy” club in the field. Maybe. Possibly. It makes you wonder when you consider that the government, in the form of NASA and some other research centers, tends to be more integrated, both for minorities and women.

    I’ve known a lot of male techhies, but few females. The males tend to be so antisocial that I don’t think I’d want to have to deal with them.

    I’ve read a few articles over the last few years that claim the gender disparity in math and science fields isn’t biological, but rather so male dominated and so competitive that women are reluctant to make the effort. Although, I can’t imagine a more competitive situation then vying to be an astronaut.

    I was very sad to see Carly Fiorina do so poorly as head of H.P. I’d ruefully chuckle to myself that it had more to do with her manly given name of Carlton that she was an old-school slash-and-burn CEO.

  10. Danny Says:

    I’ve known a lot of male techhies, but few females. The males tend to be so antisocial that I don’t think I’d want to have to deal with them.
    I myself am a techie and while I’ve never had a female coworker the guys I work with now have and from what I gather from them it seems like some of the women that do try to get into the field come in guns blazing assuming that they have something to prove because of what they heard in women’s studies classes. Now I’m not saying that there are no sexist men in IT but at the same time if you approach the whole damn gender after deciding that they are all out to get women I really don’t blame some guys for being antisocial with them.

  11. AltEngineer Says:

    “It makes you wonder when you consider that the government, in the form of NASA and some other research centers, tends to be more integrated, both for minorities and women”

    Remember that Mars probe that burned up entering the Martian atmosphere a few years ago? Guess the gender of the “engineer” that didn’t convert Newtons to foot-pounds. Guess the gender of the project manager who didn’t catch the error. In fact, guess the gender of the ENTIRE design team. Chirp …. chirp . . . chirp. NASA intended this mission to showcase Women In Engineering. Didn’t hear much about the gender thing after the spectacular failure, did we?

    I used to have to work with female engineers. A few were competent, most were a joke, none were exceptional- after having everything handed to them on a silver platter for their entire education and career. None that I’d want to socialize with, or start an enterprise with.

    Carly Fioria- jeez. Distroys the best research facility the world has ever seen, and then destroys one of the best engineering companies. The HP brand was built on its test instrumentation, not its computers. So, what does Carly do? Keeps the HP name for the computer side of the company and forces the instrument side to come up with a new name (Agilent- which is an anagram for what?), then buys Compaq, which had GREAT name recognition in the computer market. Brilliant! I’m sorry she has cancer, and wish her well, in spite of what she’s done to American industry.

    Feminism is a hate movement. If you don’t believe that, make a list of attributes associated with hate movements and see how feminism stacks up. Or just do an Internet search.

  12. desipis Says:

    My feeling is that many of the science disciplines that are dominated by men are difficult fields for women to break into. Not because of the rigors of the science, but because of the “good old boy” club in the field.

    I work in an industry that covers both IT and engineering. While there are still a few old guys around that think in the ‘boys club’ manner, they’re in the minority and rather marginalized in terms of career progress and power. Most women I’ve seen typically progress reasonably given their ability and work ethic,

    My experience has been that intelligent women don’t succeed as often in the field because they have a better work-life balance. They consider other aspects of their life too important to make the sacrifices needed to be the best.I have trouble seeing why throwing yourself at work, 80 hours a week, just to get the top job is seen as the holy grail of life goals.

    I think intelligent women (a different thing from educated women) are also more likely to understand and accept the impacts of reproductive biology on their long term life choices and the flow on affects on their career.

    One thing I think should be added to the list is that feminism teaches women to blame the system (patriarchy) first and foremost for their lack of success, which leads to much less honest self assessment. A lack of self assessment will lead to slower development of skills and a poor sense of perspective when attempting to judge whether you’re being treated fairly. This creates a feedback loop that results in a lack of success and a sense of entitlement and mistreatment.

  13. tomppeli Says:

    Why there are so many men at the top? One reason is the competition for women. Men are the “race” that has to compete for womens’ attention. Thus many men have both biological and cultural obsession to become better. Few women have the urge to become the best rally driver or scientist ever, for example. And naturally women reward successful men much more than men award successful women.

    There are, of course, other reasons as well. For example, people tend to favor friends, and men tend to have male friends. Women do this favoring, too, but the effect is not as strong because there are fewer women at the top.

    But why there are so many men at the bottom?

  14. Pelle Billing Says:

    SurferGurl
    My feeling is that many of the science disciplines that are dominated by men are difficult fields for women to break into. Not because of the rigors of the science, but because of the “good old boy” club in the field. Maybe. Possibly.

    We are all entitled to have our opinion about why men dominate certain sciences (and why men dominate the senior positions in society). However, if we want to put forward a theory, we need more than an opinion. The problem with feminism, is that it sees a phenomenon (men at the top, etc), and then immediately has an explanation – without backing it up with facts or research.

    Facts and research generally speak against feminism. The wage gap is a good example. When research was actually performed, the conclusion was that women earn the same as men when they make the same career choices as men. Another good example is domestic violence, where research has shown that men and women have more or less the same tendency to use physical violence.

    This doesn’t mean that there aren’t inequalities around the world, because there are, but it means that we need to have facts and research results as the starting point. It also means that feminism probably isn’t the movement that will bring us into the future, since regardless of its proud roots, it is now a movement that has lost touch with its sense of fairness and having compassion for all individuals (men are people too…).

  15. Pelle Billing Says:

    AltEngineer, could you point me to a source about the Mars probe?

  16. Pelle Billing Says:

    desipis:
    I have trouble seeing why throwing yourself at work, 80 hours a week, just to get the top job is seen as the holy grail of life goals.

    Well put. I wrote about this on my Swedish blog just the other day.

    tomppeli:
    But why there are so many men at the bottom?

    Because men are expendable. Human culture has developed according to the model that women need to be protected and kept in the home, since women are the only ones who can give birth to the next generation – and a culture needs lots of people to grow its influence and develop new technologies (at least that was the case in the past).

    Men however, have been used for all high risk tasks since sperms are cheap, and men dying is not a threat to the size of the next generation. Men have therefore dominated the public sphere, and competed against each other to become rich and influential – since that is what has enabled a man to be desired by women. The men who fail at this task (the homeless, the poor, etc), have little value to a culture and therefore do not get much help or compassion. Women on the other hand, have been considered intrinsically valuable due to their wombs, which is why men still make up 80 percent of the homeless.

  17. Cynic Says:

    Engineering and science are “difficult to break into” for females? How much easier do they have to become? Science and engineering have BOTH been dumbed down so the Feminist won’t be given any obstacle to her becoming a scientist (in ANY discipline) or an engineer. And the scholarships that get thrown at the Feminists…WOW! This is incredible stuff. I have watched as deserving males, who had an enthusiasm, a high level of dedication and a love of the subject get turned away (from scholarships, study opportunities, conferences and “field expeditions”) in favour of the Feminist who openly Could Not Give A Damn.

    Not once, not twice, but dozens and dozens of times. The guys I know in the fields (of science and engineering) have Just Come To Accept It as something else that Feminists get and guys don’t. I know from my own experience that if there’s three very qualified guys going for a job and there is one inexperienced Feminist who openly treats subject and boss with contempt, she’ll get the job ahead of the guys.

    I know of one young guy, whose heart was set upon getting an apprenticeship working for a company that maintains steam locomotives. He even BUILT a fully working model of the type of steam locomotive and took it along to the interview. The panel were super-impressed, as he built it from scrap he had begged companies to give to him. No easy task!

    The apprenticeship went to the solitary Feminist who’d applied for the job, and who openly stated she didn’t want the job, only the money. Her “workmanship” was so bad when she became a “tradesman” she was dismissed from the steam locomotive company on the spot. She ended up with such a bad reputation for shoddy and substandard work NOBODY would employ her at a time when trained tradesmen were in high demand.

    The young guy got a job flipping hamburgers. AHH, now there’s Feminism for ya!

    (edited to correct grammar)

  18. Jabbrewoki Says:

    Women would totally break if treated as equals to males, because males are brutal to each other. I’m the artsy, sensitive type (which of course ment women ignored me for most of my life) but I hung out with the in-crowd full of Alpha males, jocks, and thugs. We were brutal to each other. We constantly made fun of each other, tested each other, and showed no pity for anyone in the group. We also were like brothers, very close, and willing to do a lot for each other. Men push themselves to their limits, and too bad for those who can’t cut it. Even as the un-athletic, baby faced, artsy guy, I wouldn’t trade those experiences for anything, because I didn’t break, and I am a stronger person for it. Do girls really want to grow up like that? Constantly having your short-comings thrown in your face, constantly having your ego checked with verbal assaults, plus the physical beating we occasionally gave one another when someone stepped out of line. Be careful what you wish for. Not all guys were like this. I hung out in different groups, but most everyone from the Alpha group are very succussfull in one form or fashion as adults. That is male culture for you.

  19. AltEngineer Says:

    Hi Pelle,

    Here:

    http://partners.nytimes.com/library/national/science/041899nasa-women.html

    “Women have a higher probability of getting into these roles,” said Dr. Smrekar, the chief scientist. “I didn’t have the burden of lots of experience on lots of past projects.”

    http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/deep_space_probes_000407.html

    arps.org/USERS/…/Mars Orbiter Crash by Metric Conversion Error.doc

    Have fun-AE

  20. Jim Says:

    “I was very sad to see Carly Fiorina do so poorly as head of H.P. ”

    That was then, this is now, but not so long in between. Compared to everything else that has happened recently, she doesn’t loo so bad in comparison. I think it just has to do with the perils of being a CEO. Yeah, she butchered a great organization – there’s been a lot of that going around for the last 30 years.

    “My experience has been that intelligent women don’t succeed as often in the field because they have a better work-life balance. ”

    Wise as well as intelligent – that’ll screw your climb up the ladder every time.

    Look at the way women are advancing in the miltary. It is taking generations, the way it should, because it is happening organically. There may be some areas women enver get into, but as times change back and forth and organizations adapt, women are working into lots of new areas. I am not the first one to point out that a woman terp would be invaluable to an infantry platoon on house to house patrols in Iraq.

  21. AltEngineer Says:

    Re: Women in the Military

    One of the reasons Lewis & Clark’s Voyage of Discovery was successful was the fortuity of bringing Sacajawea along. Pre-Colombian Americans didn’t bring women on war parties. The inclusion of Sacajawea is believed to have averted many armed conflicts.

    I think the best way to further women in non-traditional fields is to encourage and support men to balance their lives and stay home more. We can start by giving fathers the same benefits and recognition women currently have. Of course, this means women will have to give up some control (in the home/nursery) and adjust to men in their domain, not to mention paying more of their own way, so the liklihood of this happening is small.

  22. Jim Says:

    “One of the reasons Lewis & Clark’s Voyage of Discovery was successful was the fortuity of bringing Sacajawea along. Pre-Colombian Americans didn’t bring women on war parties. The inclusion of Sacajawea is believed to have averted many armed conflicts.”

    Very true. Try a hypothetical – a male Shoshone would have been just as valuable as an interpreter with the Nez Perce, and interpreter support was crucial to the success of the effort at that juncture, but his presence would not have signalled the pacific nature of the expedition.

  23. thebigmanfred Says:

    Women in math/sciences:

    I think it’s important to point out that the lack of women in sciences is not one sided. There certainly aren’t many women in say computer engineering or computer science, but math is much more even (close to 50/50) and biological science fields have definite slant. Take a look at psychology, veterinarians, doctors, etc. The National Science Foundation keeps statistics on this type of stuff and it’s always amazed me how much of a disparity there is some areas. National Science Foundation data indicates that biological science related areas are the main science choice for women. Some areas in biological science are overwhelmingly dominated by women (i.e. women comprise 70 or 80 percent of the field). This general rule seems to be true even in the sub-fields that are not biological. For example, computer science is a general degree, but one may have a particular emphasis in biology in computer science (dna sequencing, protein programming, ect.) and this area tends to aggregate more women within computer science. The same is true for engineering, except with engineering there is a degree specifically for that called bio-engineering. In my experience I’ve seen more women major in bio-engineering than any other engineering discipline.

    Here’s a link to an American Society for Engineering Education that shows which majors women are choosing within engineering. The chart is on page 12 I think.

  24. TheBrutalReality Says:

    SurferGurl:

    “My feeling is that many of the science disciplines that are dominated by men are difficult fields for women to break into. Not because of the rigors of the science, but because of the “good old boy” club.”

    This is whining, and you need to put your crying towel away. Women do not go into the hard sciences as much as men because they DON’T WANT TO – PERIOD!! Some of the men here might be fooled into thinking you’re reasonable; I’m not one of them. I KNOW a radical feminist when I see one. Get lost.

  25. metalman Says:

    Everyone here should read the book “Who Stole Feminism” by Christina Hoff-Sommers. In this book, Hoff-Sommers defines’Equity Feminism’ vs. ‘Gender Feminism’ more clearly than anyone.

    Note that Sommers, a feminist herself, has been villified by radical feminists the world over – which means that she’s probably telling the truth.

  26. Ed Says:

    Lots of good posts….thanks, everyone! I do believe feminism has hurt EVERYONE. It isolates children with a working mother being largely absent. It hurts men by the lower productivity of the company combined with the redistributed wages from lower producing females in industry. Finally, it hurts women by TRYING to make them into working men. The majority of women I see in the workforce put in 40.00 hours because they don’t want to be there and have that better”work/life balance”.

    It’s a myth that the gender differences are purely social. That’s a point not even worth arguing. My technical office is over 50% women and it’s not fun. I preferred the 100% men in my last job. We were not burdened by bickering or sensitivities. My job is auditing and standing up to corporate execs. I’m a big guy, know my field, and its still intimidating. I notice the women in these corporations (if not coddled) can’t compete with the alpha male mentality that thrives in industry and makes these companies strong.

    I have fun with women that claim to be equals with me. I always ask them: Can you drive a semi, can you land an airplane, can you explain quantum mechanics and the theory of relativity, perform integral calculus, can you tear apart an engine and put it back together, can you outrun me or even beat me in arm wrestling? Most “equal” women say no to all of those. It’s not socialization that I can do that. I never had a father image to bank on and have even lived in a foster home for a while. It’s nature versus nurture in this case…sorry.

    Having said, that I vastly prefer strong women in my life. I do have a great female engineer as a peer and I like her a lot. However, she gained her position, respect, and prowess by being a fantastic people person as opposed to being a technical whiz. Although half my age and with a newer degree, she still lacks even what an “old school” guy like me. I even have to correct her English.

  27. C. J. Says:

    Most women would rather be homemakers than career oriented if they had the choice. “Nesting” is in the heart of most women, which is why they want to have a job that doesn’t demand they neglect their home or children. There are few women who can be company executives and still be committed homemakers. We used to say that “the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world.” The Proverbs 31 woman who was praised by her husband, her children, and her community put her husband’s and her children’s best first. The philosophy behind feminism is essential Marxist and self destructive to women and society.

  28. elizabeth Says:

    I am 21 years old, I am in the middle of completing my apprenticeship to become a plumber, AND I’m in the Canadian military. Oh, and I’m a woman. I feel exceptionally proud of my career choice, and i sincerely hope in some way, that my career choice as a plumber in the military, has some sort of influence on other young women. There is absolutely nothing wrong for women to work in the trades, I highly encourage it. I wish more women would consider this type of job. I couldn’t count the times I’ve been praised by other people upon learning what I do for a living. I guarantee there are plenty of jealous men out there, just for that!

  29. Pelle Billing Says:

    elizabeth,

    Well done! Being free to choose the career you want is what gender equality is about.

  30. witman Says:

    And how many men get praised for being a plumber in the military? If anything, it’s that missing praise that the men might be sorely lacking, not the career choice!

  31. my2cents Says:

    Just thought I would leave my 2 cents worth here – I worked in Libraries for 10 years…. Started a Plumber/Gasfitter Apprenticeship at 38 years old. I am now a Journeyman. It was not easy, and although most of the men I worked with let me do my own thing, there were plenty who would constantly ask me if I needed help – some such pests that I told men off on a regular basis. And talk about an old boys club – picking on me for every little thing because I am a woman. It is true that a woman in the trades has to do the work of 3 men and still no respect. But in the end, who cares…I love what I do and it is a pleasure to hear a young girl say to her mother “look mom, it’s a girl!” and maybe open a few minds. I have been proud to do my own work and make my own way without help. Hope I haven’t rattled on to much… any questions, just ask, I’ve worked on alot of Commercial job sites.

  32. Pelle Billing Says:

    @my2cents.

    “And talk about an old boys club – picking on me for every little thing because I am a woman.”

    That may not be true. Women are often shocked at how men treat each other, and that you get no respect until you’ve proven time and again that you deserve it. So you may simply be treated the way that men treat each other. I’m not saying that men’s way of treating each other is ideal, but I am saying that many women feel discriminated against when they are not.

    However, being a woman in a man’s job you have the opportunity to affect the workplace culture.

  33. Danny Says:

    “It is true that a woman in the trades has to do the work of 3 men and still no respect.”

    Did you by chance cross paths with any rookie men around the time you were getting started? In relation to what Pelle says its not like as men we can pull out our penises to verify manhood and respect is instantly given.

  34. Brad Fallon Says:

    I’ve not too long ago began a blog, the information you present on this web site has helped me tremendously. Thank you for your whole time & work.

  35. Women destroy everything they touch! Says:

    [...] destroy everything they touch! How Feminism Hurts Women AltEngineer Says: June 5th, 2009 at 3:49 am

  36. eric house Says:

    Feminism is anti-christian. It goes against the first order God gave to women after she fell to sin, that a woman must be subordinate to her husband. When feminists teach women to disregard this order they are at that point disobeying and teaching others to disobedy God. Many liberal feminists of course simply will not care about this because they simply do not believe in God. How does feminism hurt women? Well men use to treat women special…. however, when enough women say, “don’t you think I can hold a door open for myself?” or say when society starts looking with more respect towards women with jobs than they do at stay at home moms who care for their babies, it hurts women. Man was ordered to work, women was ordered to obey her husband, however almosrt everything that liberals believe in is in direct defiance to God and orders he has given. God calls it evil for a man to lay with a man and women to be with women but now we have them being able to be married and legally in our military. They want right and wrong redefined not based on the bible and Gods orders but on their liberal views and life styles. Women are spending less time with their children because they are forced to work. They have more stress in their lives, and less time for love with hubby and babies.

    Ladies the next time some feminist is spurting her BS JUST SAY NO…..

    Let me give you a really good picture of their BS…

    I live in Daytona Beach Florida, awhile back we had a big fight over whether or not cars should be able to drive down the beach…. it seems that sea turtles where comeing up out of the water and leaveing their eggs in the sand. Sooo liberals and a feminist group where fighting for the beach to be closed as cars where driving over the eggs. Now mind you just one month before I had seen this group talk over in Orlando and the same big mouth feminist lady doing a speach and she had said and I quote “because it has not been born yet a human egg has no rights” so as this lady was giving her speach here in Daytona I said, “excuse me mamm are yopu not the same lady that told us a month ago that because a baby egg has not been born yet that they have no rights?” She said yeah thats right….. I SAID THEN ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL WOULD THAT NOT MEAN THAT BECAUSE THE TURTLE EGG HAS NOT BEEN BORN YET IT HAS NO RIGHTS??????? Fopr the first time in my life I saw a feminist speachless…. Ya see the truth is not that feminists really believe that human babies are not alive in the womb of course they are they are alive and ghrowing they simply do not care about that all they care about is “female selfishness’ that a womans rights should be treated as more important than her babies… Any real woman would place her babies rights above her own… they can be compared to a deadbeat dad, he does not care about his childs needs it is about spending the money on himself instead… what do women think opf deadbeat dads? That is what men think of women that have abortions. Selfish self centerd people who only care about ME ME ME….. Feminism is evil and teaches women that all they should care about is themselves. What if a mans group taught men that all they should care about is themselves and their opwen rights? What woulod women think of them? Whart do you think of men who do not put their wives and children first? That is a feminist. Only women can put an end to this, simply turn away from what you know is wrong.

  37. Andrew Says:

    Wouldn’t it be simpler to just ball up men and women into a group, let’s call this group Humans and then work on something we’ll call Human Rights? History helps guide us on our path into the future by understanding the past, not by getting hung up on it and festering about all the injustice. And God doesn’t want women to be subordinate, at least not if you believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ. And God, in most if not all religions, is considered to be omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient; in other words “IT” is perfect, so aren’t our imperfect insights into god the problem. Didn’t mean to get hung up at religion. Last point, people regardless of gender, gender roles, or sexual preference are typically not trying to cause harm for or to others but trying to gain acceptance, happiness, comfort, or simply ease their pain. Life is pain, pain doesn’t work for you, you work through pain, and through work you gain a better life. I hope I made sense.

  38. Mari Says:

    This is one definition of feminism, which in my opinion (and many other women’s) is the wrong one. Yes, feminism is about women gaining power, but it’s also about equalization of the genders. When women become men-hating, sexist and bitter, this is called Female Supremacy. It’s a really destructive attitude and comes from being misguided. However, this is not the attitude that all feminists have. Most are clued in enough to know that women cannot survive without men and vice versa, biologically we need each other so it makes sense to appreciate each other’s qualities and live harmoniously.

    Also, how are women taught not to be afraid of rape? Women are taught self-defense and not to be submissive, i.e. to tap into their own sense of self-empowerment. However, your argument makes it sound like the issue of rape is ignored or dismissed completely. It makes sense that this ignorant viewpoint is male-oriented because men are the ones doing the raping! Instead, most feminists I know walk tall and don’t let fear stop them from living, but also make smart decisions and takes precautions to keep themselves safe, such as carrying rocks and whistles and letting a friend know their whearabouts when going out alone at night.

    Thank you for this post-it has shown exactly the wrong perceptions of feminism.

  39. jhan6120 Says:

    How about this: let’s scrap feminism, gender studies, cultural studies, and all that crap and go by rule #1 of economics:

    THERE’S NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH.

    The problem with second and third wave feminism is that it obliterated first wave feminism’s message of indivualism and self-determination. Since the 1960′s, ideological feminism has been run largely by neo-marxists and post-modern academics who strive not to empower women under the system we currently have, but to replace that system with collectivism and big government.

    Go hang out on any university campus and tell me if you hear any differently. Go ahead . . . I’m waiting . . .

    Along with this, the media has fed women a ‘You can have it all’ mentality that has left them high and dry. “YES!! You can have the great ‘career’ (men call them JOBS), a family when and if you want it, unrestrained sexual freedom, men who are ‘sensitive’ and yet ‘manly’ (at appropriate times), and a general feeling of wellbeing made-to-order. And guess what: if you don’t have all those things, IT’S EVERYONE ELSE’S FAULT!!”

    Men, on the other hand, were never fed this pie-in-the-sky dream. For us, it’s go to school, go to work, have a good sandwich occasionally, work some more, and then die. Pretty simple, right? That’s why we’re happier.

    I take public transportation to work every day, and over the past few years, I’ve noticed something: the women look MISERABLE. They are scowling, wretched creatures. And don’t give me the ‘Well, if you had to work AND take care of kids’ routine either. I LOOK to see if there are rings on these womens’ fingers. and on most of them, there aren’t. The truth – the REAL truth – is that they’re unhappy because they HAVE TO WORK. You see . . . what most of these women wanted was the OPTION to work; they didn’t want to HAVE TO GO TO WORK like us men. And now their all like “What the fuck, dude? How did this happen?”

    Feminism taught women that there’s 120% of a pie out there. Well, there ISN’T!! You make a choice HERE, you give up something THERE. You do this thing over here, you sacrifice that thing over there. There are no grand ‘solutions’ in life, only trade-offs. Second and third wave feminism is all about ENTITLEMENT. Reality teaches us that no one is entitled to SHIT except death and taxes.

    Once women toss out the pie-in-the-sky bullshit of contemporary feminism, they’ll be OK. Beyond that . . . see you at work, ladies.


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