If you can convince parents to circumcise their sons, you can convince them to do anything.

Well said Chris, I think this is an important factor.

I sometimes wonder if this is not a demonstration of the disposibility of men. In order to maintain the ability to sacrifice men in large numbers when the need arises (the next natural disaster or war) society needs to demonstrate to itself that it still has that ability, by hurting boys and men in some obvious way and being able to silence the critics.

The circumcision of infant males fits that role perfectly. It’s obviously painful and damaging, there is no good reason for doing it, and the analogous procedure for women is considered a completely different proposition in the public’s mind.

If you can convince parents to circumcise their sons, you can convince them to do anything.

Have you ever noticed how the debate over marijuana is so much louder than the debate over harder drugs? The drug warriors want as much control as they can get, so they pick a harmless drug and spend all their effort establishing their right to ban it, going so far as to criminalize/harassing people suffering from diseases that benefit from medical use of the drug. Their thought is that if they can ban marijuana, they will have the power to control a much wider range of substances than if they only had the right to ban, say, harder drugs like cocaine.

He’s so right, and there a thousand posts you could dig out of this one subject.

“And yes, cable companies in most countries outside the US now offer English language channels from China, Russia, France and Qatar, to name but a few.”

I wasn’t talking about English-language broadcasts, but the Spanish and Chinese broadcasts on the local cable package. They tend to focus on the sort of people who emigrate rather than work as expats, so their tastes area little more down-market. Kitsch is universal.

“Would that be the fanny pack wearing brigade who come to London to look at “Lei-cess-ter Square” and “all those quaint houses”?

I wasn’t talking about Japanese tourists. I was talking about the briagde that passed through Ellis Island.

I’m sorry for not mentioning feminism in the last 5 minutes, but sometimes other things, such as that tiny little thing called religion, does affect how men and women are treated.

Trust me, I have seen more US newscasts than I would have liked. And yes, cable companies in most countries outside the US now offer English language channels from China, Russia, France and Qatar, to name but a few.

You know all about us? Would that be the fanny pack wearing brigade who come to London to look at “Lei-cess-ter Square” and “all those quaint houses”?

Turn the question around - if we are not to interfere in this example of what we consider child abuse, hwen do we satrt? Is it OK isf parents do it, but not if others do it? To what extent can these parents expect us to care at all about what happnes to their children?

Oh, and unomi,

“Did you ever try watching newscasts that are not about water-skiing kittens (i.e. non-American ones)?”

Can you please try to come up with soem less laughable stereotypes? And you are a little less than fully informed about non-American newscasts. Apparently you don’t watch Mexican or Chinese newscasts. They love that shit.

“The American-Jewish lobby’s stranglehold on US public discourse is highly relevant to this discussion. They are the single biggest reason why circumcision will never be openly and rationally discussed in that country.”

And can you please try to educate yourself on the simplest basics of this country that you insist on pontificating on? The biggest pro-Israel lobby is the Anglo-Saxon and Scotch-Irish fundamentalists and Pentacostals (Germans, Scandinavians and AAs almost never join these churches). They and their loopy self-identifcation with ancient Israel, which goes right back to the Roundhead filth (some of my ancestors) who founded Massachussetts, and formed the basis for Manifest Destiny, is the cultural basis for the acceptance of circumcision in the first place. They just love, love, love the State of Israel, for all the wrong reasons from a Jewish perpsective.

But you’re probably never going to get to any real understanding because your bigotry will prevent you. Well, if you are interested in learning, you can start with this bit - we know you, we know all about you, because we used to be you.

The American-Jewish lobby’s stranglehold on US public discourse is highly relevant to this discussion. They are the single biggest reason why circumcision will never be openly and rationally discussed in that country.

@Jim

Here we go again. Someone points out the clear link behind a powerful Jewish lobby and the massive sums in foreign aid that go to Israel, and they get accused of calling someone “a money grubbing Jew”. Did you ever try watching newscasts that are not about water-skiing kittens (i.e. non-American ones)?

equally disgustingly by Muslims in your own country without any interference whatsoever. And my point was simply that interference in this custom brings a lot of baggage, specifically and especially in the European context.

You care about Muslims? Why the “single” exceptions for Jews then? And what type of baggage are you talking about, exactly?

The Jews don’t need to kill Palestinian babies; the Palestinians are the masters at that. When’s the last time the Mossad strapped a suicide belt onto a Palestinian child? Or maybe the real baby-killers are the soft-headed Europeans who fall for that kind of passive-agggressive manipulation and make it pay off.

No, it’s supposed to shut up smug and clueless Europeans, and a deflectionary (and racistly stereoytping) snipe about money-grubbing Jews is not going to work. We are talking about a cultural exemption for a disgusting and backward custom practised not only by Jews but equally disgustingly by Muslims in your own country without any interference whatsoever. And my point was simply that interference in this custom brings a lot of baggage, specifically and especially in the European context.

Because at the end of the day, the Third Reich was not really that much of an aberration for you people. And comments like yours just prove my point.