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	<title>Comments on: Concerning Female Sainthood</title>
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	<link>http://www.pellebilling.com/2009/07/concerning-female-sainthood/</link>
	<description>Gender Liberation Beyond Feminism</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 23:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Deva Ariza</title>
		<link>http://www.pellebilling.com/2009/07/concerning-female-sainthood/comment-page-1/#comment-1524</link>
		<dc:creator>Deva Ariza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:49:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pellebilling.com/?p=1315#comment-1524</guid>
		<description>That's precisely my point, that many people hold the same stereotypes I listed above, "women as beautiful, caring, nurturing, selfless, giving, soft, gentle, kind, etc. and men as strong, hard, unemotional, protective, violent, aggressive, loud, competitive etc." 

I'm wondering what any of this has to do with feminism. Are you prepared to show how feminism created the stereotypes above, or has it rather tried to shatter them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s precisely my point, that many people hold the same stereotypes I listed above, &#8220;women as beautiful, caring, nurturing, selfless, giving, soft, gentle, kind, etc. and men as strong, hard, unemotional, protective, violent, aggressive, loud, competitive etc.&#8221; </p>
<p>I&#8217;m wondering what any of this has to do with feminism. Are you prepared to show how feminism created the stereotypes above, or has it rather tried to shatter them?</p>
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		<title>By: Pelle Billing</title>
		<link>http://www.pellebilling.com/2009/07/concerning-female-sainthood/comment-page-1/#comment-1518</link>
		<dc:creator>Pelle Billing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pellebilling.com/?p=1315#comment-1518</guid>
		<description>Well Deva, I think you unintentionally demonstrated the dynamic :)

When you listed the female characteristics, you choose attractive ones, but when you listed the male characteristics, you used several unattracted ones. This leads to WAW (women are wonderful).

A more accurate description of an idealized male stereotype would be strong, fearless, risking own life to protect or help others, rational, wise, etc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Deva, I think you unintentionally demonstrated the dynamic <img src='http://www.pellebilling.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>When you listed the female characteristics, you choose attractive ones, but when you listed the male characteristics, you used several unattracted ones. This leads to WAW (women are wonderful).</p>
<p>A more accurate description of an idealized male stereotype would be strong, fearless, risking own life to protect or help others, rational, wise, etc</p>
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		<title>By: Deva Ariza</title>
		<link>http://www.pellebilling.com/2009/07/concerning-female-sainthood/comment-page-1/#comment-1516</link>
		<dc:creator>Deva Ariza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 03:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pellebilling.com/?p=1315#comment-1516</guid>
		<description>Speaking anecdotally here, it appears to me that the WAW phenomenon stems from the possibility that people like *idealized* femininity more than *idealized* masculinity. When looking at "ideal" gender stereotypes, we see women as beautiful, caring, nurturing, selfless, giving, soft, gentle, kind, etc. and men as strong, hard, unemotional, protective, violent, aggressive, loud, competitive etc. The stereotypes may be more what people conjure than the reality -- which is that we are all capable of all of the above. 

Just a guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking anecdotally here, it appears to me that the WAW phenomenon stems from the possibility that people like *idealized* femininity more than *idealized* masculinity. When looking at &#8220;ideal&#8221; gender stereotypes, we see women as beautiful, caring, nurturing, selfless, giving, soft, gentle, kind, etc. and men as strong, hard, unemotional, protective, violent, aggressive, loud, competitive etc. The stereotypes may be more what people conjure than the reality &#8212; which is that we are all capable of all of the above. </p>
<p>Just a guess.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.pellebilling.com/2009/07/concerning-female-sainthood/comment-page-1/#comment-1421</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pellebilling.com/?p=1315#comment-1421</guid>
		<description>I just mean that it's a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a bad therapist. On the other hand a good therapist can virtually give your life back to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just mean that it&#8217;s a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a bad therapist. On the other hand a good therapist can virtually give your life back to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane McGillivray</title>
		<link>http://www.pellebilling.com/2009/07/concerning-female-sainthood/comment-page-1/#comment-1417</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane McGillivray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pellebilling.com/?p=1315#comment-1417</guid>
		<description>JIm wrote:  “naw, not a bad thing! I have been doing piles for ages…..”
When it’s good. very good. When it’s bad, it’s horrid.

Jim what is your point here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JIm wrote:  “naw, not a bad thing! I have been doing piles for ages…..”<br />
When it’s good. very good. When it’s bad, it’s horrid.</p>
<p>Jim what is your point here?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.pellebilling.com/2009/07/concerning-female-sainthood/comment-page-1/#comment-1402</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pellebilling.com/?p=1315#comment-1402</guid>
		<description>Here's an anecdote:

When I got off active duty from the Army, I eventually went into teaching. I taught at the high school level. (My army experience was a huge help with teenagers. They respond like slightly younger soldiers to the same things - respect, acknowdledgement of their tribulations, encouragement that they are tougher than their tribulations, the insistence on empowerment, etc) One thing I was absolute about was cheating or lying. (It's an officer thing) I told them that it was a very big deal for me, that I would go to almost any length to avoid calling someone a cheat or a liar, because once I did, it was over - they might keep coming to class, and they might still take advantage of the instruction, and I would grade their tests for them, but as far as any professional relationship between teacher and student, there would be none at all.

Quite a number of students liked this from the outset, but there were always plenty of kids who many thought I was coming from another planet, and it always amazed me how many there were. I told them gently that I didn't think less of them for that, many of them came from families who were in business (sales especially) and different occupations have different dharmas. But this was mine, and it applied to education too, so that was that.

So the point of that was that there are lots of people in the world who see nothing really wrong with lying, and probably do a lot of it to get by.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s an anecdote:</p>
<p>When I got off active duty from the Army, I eventually went into teaching. I taught at the high school level. (My army experience was a huge help with teenagers. They respond like slightly younger soldiers to the same things - respect, acknowdledgement of their tribulations, encouragement that they are tougher than their tribulations, the insistence on empowerment, etc) One thing I was absolute about was cheating or lying. (It&#8217;s an officer thing) I told them that it was a very big deal for me, that I would go to almost any length to avoid calling someone a cheat or a liar, because once I did, it was over - they might keep coming to class, and they might still take advantage of the instruction, and I would grade their tests for them, but as far as any professional relationship between teacher and student, there would be none at all.</p>
<p>Quite a number of students liked this from the outset, but there were always plenty of kids who many thought I was coming from another planet, and it always amazed me how many there were. I told them gently that I didn&#8217;t think less of them for that, many of them came from families who were in business (sales especially) and different occupations have different dharmas. But this was mine, and it applied to education too, so that was that.</p>
<p>So the point of that was that there are lots of people in the world who see nothing really wrong with lying, and probably do a lot of it to get by.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.pellebilling.com/2009/07/concerning-female-sainthood/comment-page-1/#comment-1401</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pellebilling.com/?p=1315#comment-1401</guid>
		<description>"naw, not a bad thing! I have been doing piles for ages….."

When it's good. very good. When it's bad, it's horrid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;naw, not a bad thing! I have been doing piles for ages…..&#8221;</p>
<p>When it&#8217;s good. very good. When it&#8217;s bad, it&#8217;s horrid.</p>
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		<title>By: Pelle Billing</title>
		<link>http://www.pellebilling.com/2009/07/concerning-female-sainthood/comment-page-1/#comment-1397</link>
		<dc:creator>Pelle Billing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pellebilling.com/?p=1315#comment-1397</guid>
		<description>Sure, I wouldn't trust the survey for any details. But there are &lt;a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/apr/21/weekendmagazine" rel="nofollow"&gt;other surveys&lt;/a&gt; too, for example by Richard Wiseman (Professor of Psychology) who wrote Quirkology:

"A few years ago I carried out a national survey into lying, focusing on adults. Only 8% of respondents claimed never to have lied. Other work has invited people to keep a detailed diary of every conversation that they have, and of all of the lies that they tell, over a two-week period. The results suggest that most people tell about two important lies each day, that a third of conversations involve some form of deception, that four in five lies remain undetected, that more than 80% of people have lied to secure a job, and that more than 60% of the population have cheated on their partners at least once."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, I wouldn&#8217;t trust the survey for any details. But there are <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/apr/21/weekendmagazine" rel="nofollow">other surveys</a> too, for example by Richard Wiseman (Professor of Psychology) who wrote Quirkology:</p>
<p>&#8220;A few years ago I carried out a national survey into lying, focusing on adults. Only 8% of respondents claimed never to have lied. Other work has invited people to keep a detailed diary of every conversation that they have, and of all of the lies that they tell, over a two-week period. The results suggest that most people tell about two important lies each day, that a third of conversations involve some form of deception, that four in five lies remain undetected, that more than 80% of people have lied to secure a job, and that more than 60% of the population have cheated on their partners at least once.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Katie Heikkinen</title>
		<link>http://www.pellebilling.com/2009/07/concerning-female-sainthood/comment-page-1/#comment-1395</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie Heikkinen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pellebilling.com/?p=1315#comment-1395</guid>
		<description>A survey for That's Life magazine? I wouldn't trust it. Magazine surveys, regardless of sample size, tend to be pretty useless. Seriously, the questions could have been phrased in a completely leading way. I don't trust a survey unless it's published in a peer reviewed journal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A survey for That&#8217;s Life magazine? I wouldn&#8217;t trust it. Magazine surveys, regardless of sample size, tend to be pretty useless. Seriously, the questions could have been phrased in a completely leading way. I don&#8217;t trust a survey unless it&#8217;s published in a peer reviewed journal.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane McGillivray</title>
		<link>http://www.pellebilling.com/2009/07/concerning-female-sainthood/comment-page-1/#comment-1392</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane McGillivray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pellebilling.com/?p=1315#comment-1392</guid>
		<description>naw, not a bad thing! I have been doing piles for ages.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>naw, not a bad thing! I have been doing piles for ages&#8230;..</p>
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