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	<title>Comments on: Top Ten Feminist Myths</title>
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	<link>http://www.pellebilling.com/2009/12/top-ten-feminist-myths/</link>
	<description>Gender Liberation Beyond Feminism</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 22:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Toysoldier</title>
		<link>http://www.pellebilling.com/2009/12/top-ten-feminist-myths/comment-page-1/#comment-2246</link>
		<dc:creator>Toysoldier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 18:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pellebilling.com/?p=1885#comment-2246</guid>
		<description>Anon, 

Regardless of what Islamic culture one views one will likely find the if their is oppression of women their is general social oppression in the culture and society. While I am not a historian, of the cultures I have read about I can think of none in which only women as women are subjected to oppression. Every culture or society I have read about in which women face severe discrimination always has an oppressive regime in power that subjects the entire society to severe discrimination.

One other thing to keep in mind is that groups who are oppressed are generally hated to such an extent that they are enslaved with an attempt to control their numbers or there is a genocide. I can think of no instance in which a group of people are oppressed but the culture or society goes out of its way to establish said group as more deserving of protection or deserving of being placed on a pedestal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon, </p>
<p>Regardless of what Islamic culture one views one will likely find the if their is oppression of women their is general social oppression in the culture and society. While I am not a historian, of the cultures I have read about I can think of none in which only women as women are subjected to oppression. Every culture or society I have read about in which women face severe discrimination always has an oppressive regime in power that subjects the entire society to severe discrimination.</p>
<p>One other thing to keep in mind is that groups who are oppressed are generally hated to such an extent that they are enslaved with an attempt to control their numbers or there is a genocide. I can think of no instance in which a group of people are oppressed but the culture or society goes out of its way to establish said group as more deserving of protection or deserving of being placed on a pedestal.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Marshall</title>
		<link>http://www.pellebilling.com/2009/12/top-ten-feminist-myths/comment-page-1/#comment-2244</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Marshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 18:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pellebilling.com/?p=1885#comment-2244</guid>
		<description>Anon:

The only Islamic country I have any first hand knowledge of is Iran.

I think Pelle's summary applies there very well.  Iranian women are not any more oppressed as a gender than Iranian men are.

I would be curious what specific countries you have in mind when you slur Islam and what specifics you could offer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon:</p>
<p>The only Islamic country I have any first hand knowledge of is Iran.</p>
<p>I think Pelle&#8217;s summary applies there very well.  Iranian women are not any more oppressed as a gender than Iranian men are.</p>
<p>I would be curious what specific countries you have in mind when you slur Islam and what specifics you could offer.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.pellebilling.com/2009/12/top-ten-feminist-myths/comment-page-1/#comment-2243</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 16:42:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pellebilling.com/?p=1885#comment-2243</guid>
		<description>"These human and gendered hardships are due to the division of labor, not because of any intrinsic urge to oppress either women or men."

In Islamic cultures women are often systematically oppressed in incredibly sadistic ways that have nothing at all to do with labor. In Islam women barely qualify as objects, let alone as human beings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;These human and gendered hardships are due to the division of labor, not because of any intrinsic urge to oppress either women or men.&#8221;</p>
<p>In Islamic cultures women are often systematically oppressed in incredibly sadistic ways that have nothing at all to do with labor. In Islam women barely qualify as objects, let alone as human beings.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.pellebilling.com/2009/12/top-ten-feminist-myths/comment-page-1/#comment-2242</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 16:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pellebilling.com/?p=1885#comment-2242</guid>
		<description>TS is right. While there are people who both identify as feminist and also have a sense of justice and equality and the ability and wilingness to argue reasonably, that is rarely who you find yourself debating with. Instead you find yourself debating with people for whom these myths are articles of faith. It is almost exactly like debating evolution with a Fundamentalist. 

Feminism has become a religion. The only purposes of debate are to identify the practitioners and then to provoke them into discrediting their positions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TS is right. While there are people who both identify as feminist and also have a sense of justice and equality and the ability and wilingness to argue reasonably, that is rarely who you find yourself debating with. Instead you find yourself debating with people for whom these myths are articles of faith. It is almost exactly like debating evolution with a Fundamentalist. </p>
<p>Feminism has become a religion. The only purposes of debate are to identify the practitioners and then to provoke them into discrediting their positions.</p>
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		<title>By: Danny</title>
		<link>http://www.pellebilling.com/2009/12/top-ten-feminist-myths/comment-page-1/#comment-2241</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 14:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pellebilling.com/?p=1885#comment-2241</guid>
		<description>Along with what Chris says the reason number 7 is so hard to shake off is because the current landscape on DV is WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY too profitable for a lot of people and it just so happens that the ones that are profitting are the ones that have the power to enact direct change.

Judges, cops, and politicians win brownie points for "helping women" and "looking out for the best interests of the children".

Lawyers and those who get their pay from DV funding are making a lot of money.

And as it stands those people need the illusion that the definition of DV is male against female and need the public at large to think that all other forms of DV don't happen enough to raise concern (or get more than the feminist lip service line "Patriarchy Hurts Men Too").  For if that were to happen that means they would not have the market cornered on helping victims of DV.


From item 2. &lt;i&gt;What remains the same though, is that men are the ones who do &lt;b&gt;most&lt;/b&gt; of the fighting...&lt;/i&gt;&lt;b&gt;...and most of the dying&lt;/b&gt;.


Item 1.
&lt;i&gt;1. The male gender role is more privileged than the female gender role.
Each gender role has its own unique set of challenges, and it doesn’t make much sense to compare who has it worse. The reason people believe that women are worse off is because feminism is the only source of knowledge for most people when it comes to gender roles, and feminism only speaks about female issues, while conveniently forgetting to mention all the important men’s issues.&lt;/i&gt;
A fitting myth for the number one spot.  How fitting for a movement that focuses on one gender to conclude that their own gender has it worse than the other and only mention how bad the other gender has it when benefits them.  But rest assured that when women have it worse its just pointing out oppression but when men have it worse its Oppression Olympics.

Sad part is feminism has done a lot of good and there is still a lot of good that needs to be done but as the movement is today it has been poisoned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Along with what Chris says the reason number 7 is so hard to shake off is because the current landscape on DV is WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY too profitable for a lot of people and it just so happens that the ones that are profitting are the ones that have the power to enact direct change.</p>
<p>Judges, cops, and politicians win brownie points for &#8220;helping women&#8221; and &#8220;looking out for the best interests of the children&#8221;.</p>
<p>Lawyers and those who get their pay from DV funding are making a lot of money.</p>
<p>And as it stands those people need the illusion that the definition of DV is male against female and need the public at large to think that all other forms of DV don&#8217;t happen enough to raise concern (or get more than the feminist lip service line &#8220;Patriarchy Hurts Men Too&#8221;).  For if that were to happen that means they would not have the market cornered on helping victims of DV.</p>
<p>From item 2. <i>What remains the same though, is that men are the ones who do <b>most</b> of the fighting&#8230;</i><b>&#8230;and most of the dying</b>.</p>
<p>Item 1.<br />
<i>1. The male gender role is more privileged than the female gender role.<br />
Each gender role has its own unique set of challenges, and it doesn’t make much sense to compare who has it worse. The reason people believe that women are worse off is because feminism is the only source of knowledge for most people when it comes to gender roles, and feminism only speaks about female issues, while conveniently forgetting to mention all the important men’s issues.</i><br />
A fitting myth for the number one spot.  How fitting for a movement that focuses on one gender to conclude that their own gender has it worse than the other and only mention how bad the other gender has it when benefits them.  But rest assured that when women have it worse its just pointing out oppression but when men have it worse its Oppression Olympics.</p>
<p>Sad part is feminism has done a lot of good and there is still a lot of good that needs to be done but as the movement is today it has been poisoned.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Marshall</title>
		<link>http://www.pellebilling.com/2009/12/top-ten-feminist-myths/comment-page-1/#comment-2240</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Marshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 14:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pellebilling.com/?p=1885#comment-2240</guid>
		<description>One reason why number 7 takes so many people by suprise is that the average man is stronger than the average woman, so what does the average man have to fear?

He has to fear the police and courts who have shown themselves very unwilling to believe that a man was attacked by his wife when they are called, no matter how obvious the signs are the woman attacked the man.

This unwritten rule, that if the police are called to the scene after a domestic fight then it must have been the man who attacked the woman, takes any physical advantage the average man has off the table.  The man knows this and the woman knows this.

No matter how slight her injuries, and no matter how serious his, any injury to her will mean that he must have caused the fight.

What you are left with, then, is how willing to be vicious both people are.  And that quality is much more evenly distributed among the sexes than physical strength is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One reason why number 7 takes so many people by suprise is that the average man is stronger than the average woman, so what does the average man have to fear?</p>
<p>He has to fear the police and courts who have shown themselves very unwilling to believe that a man was attacked by his wife when they are called, no matter how obvious the signs are the woman attacked the man.</p>
<p>This unwritten rule, that if the police are called to the scene after a domestic fight then it must have been the man who attacked the woman, takes any physical advantage the average man has off the table.  The man knows this and the woman knows this.</p>
<p>No matter how slight her injuries, and no matter how serious his, any injury to her will mean that he must have caused the fight.</p>
<p>What you are left with, then, is how willing to be vicious both people are.  And that quality is much more evenly distributed among the sexes than physical strength is.</p>
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		<title>By: Toysoldier</title>
		<link>http://www.pellebilling.com/2009/12/top-ten-feminist-myths/comment-page-1/#comment-2239</link>
		<dc:creator>Toysoldier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 06:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pellebilling.com/?p=1885#comment-2239</guid>
		<description>Feminism is no longer about (if it ever was about) constructive discussions about gender. Feminism is a political movement and as such it will always lean more towards the provocative, the inflammatory and the less than factually true but emotionally satisfying. To make any real progress there must be a shift from focusing on politics. It has to be less about winning an argument or being right. I do not think, however, that most people who hold such political views will be willingly to set them aside in order to do constructive work. It is much more satisfying to have enemies to stick it to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Feminism is no longer about (if it ever was about) constructive discussions about gender. Feminism is a political movement and as such it will always lean more towards the provocative, the inflammatory and the less than factually true but emotionally satisfying. To make any real progress there must be a shift from focusing on politics. It has to be less about winning an argument or being right. I do not think, however, that most people who hold such political views will be willingly to set them aside in order to do constructive work. It is much more satisfying to have enemies to stick it to.</p>
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