Hanna Rosin at TED

December 16th, 2010 by Pelle Billing

If you know anybody that still believes that women are unilaterally oppressed and desperately need feminism to save them, then please send them to this blog post, so they can watch this:

15 Responses to “Hanna Rosin at TED”

  1. Nick Says:

    “Here’s her salary. Here’s yours. Who’s the man now?” Ouch.

    Who said salary size and bread-winning should have anything to do with gender? That was always a terrible way to employ gender definitions, so why let it continue?

    But I do like when she asked, “Who are men now? Who are you now?”

  2. AlexNY Says:

    When men had POWER, women had PRIVILEDGE.

    Now that women have POWER, what are the odds that they will let go of PRIVILEDGE?

  3. Kendal Says:

    This looks like both a good and a bad thing.

    It shows that women are starting to build power, which is a good thing. But at the same time, they still expect the privileges that they had for so long.

    Maybe I’m being too cynical, but this isn’t much of a fight for equality than a fight for supremacy. Hanna doesn’t seem to be advocating supremacy here, but I can’t help but think that the statistic she is showing us is hinting at further antagonism towards men by women.

    Not going to lie, I do somewhat think that women have been looked down on due to the baseless argument “because you’re a woman”. But it seems like there’s a deep seethe of revenge in a lot of women’s heads to get back at their male counterparts on the equally baseless argument “because you’re a man”, which seems to pop up in places like divorce, chivlry, expendability…

    Seriously, someone help me lose my paranoia here.

  4. hopeless_case Says:

    I thought her analysis was pretty good.

    Maybe I’m being too cynical, but this isn’t much of a fight for equality than a fight for supremacy. Hanna doesn’t seem to be advocating supremacy here, but I can’t help but think that the statistic she is showing us is hinting at further antagonism towards men by women.

    I would boil her argument down to this:
    1. women are pulling ahead of men in power on a number of fronts (for the first time in all of history)
    2. it’s amazing how quickly it is happening.
    3. we better start thinking about the plight of the men left behind now, or we could have a real problem on our hands

    I didn’t detect a trace of anti-male sentiment in her presentation. Quite the opposite: she is clearly worried about the welfare of men.

    I expect the argument she made to receive a cold reception in feminist circles as it implies men need to be taken more seriously as victims, and women need to be taken less seriously as victims.

    I would have given her a standing ovation had I been in the crowd. She hit it out of the ballpark.

    Seriously, someone help me lose my paranoia here

    This is a magnificant shot right at the heart of the victim power of feminists. And not only did she not bet booed, but a mainstream audience received her presentation warmly.

  5. Kendal Says:

    I didn’t detect a trace of anti-male sentiment in her presentation. Quite the opposite: she is clearly worried about the welfare of men.

    I wasn’t trying to imply that she was being anti-male at all, but that these statistic might bolster that kind of view among some feminists. That they might want to further continue giving women power while sucking men dry from it.

    While Hanna hits the nail on the head in her presentation of how this will end up becoming a problem if not addressed, my fear is that many will choose not to address it and, in a worst-case scenario, continue to increase that gap between the genders

  6. Irv Salos Says:

    This speech had poor critical thinking and relied on extrapolation beyond what the data warranted. So fewer couples in countries like India want a first-born to be a son? So what? This is not “The End of Men”. This is a fallacy-ridden crock of crap.

    Where do you hear that “Men are the new ball and chain”?? You hear it at the one college Hanna chooses to visit. It sounds like a feminist slogan, not an objective social commentary.

    I have four stay-at-home Moms in my family and one that is the wife of my son’s life-long friend. My daughter-in-law works part-time. This video is pure propaganda and textbook propaganda at that.

  7. hopeless_case Says:

    Irv:

    I think by “The End of Men” she means the end of men in the role of protector and provider and primary economic focus, not any sort of threat to the continued existence of men. Women are usurping the role of men in the economy (as primary breadwinner) for the first time since the dawn of history. I thought her evidence for that was compelling.

  8. Patrick Grady Says:

    “The End of Men” is meant to be provocative….much like most of the speech. The TED conference is not a mainstream audience, it was a very feminist audience….and if anyone cares, Hanna Rosin is a darling of the Feminist echo chamber blogsphere…..and is founding editor for Slate.com all women blog XX.

  9. Skeptik Says:

    Hopeless case says -

    [[[I would boil her argument down to this:
    1. women are pulling ahead of men in power on a number of fronts (for the first time in all of history)
    2. it’s amazing how quickly it is happening.
    3. we better start thinking about the plight of the men left behind now, or we could have a real problem on our hands]]]

    I say –

    1. women have had power over men on a number of fronts for a long time.
    It’s nothing new.
    Witness male disposability over the millenia for proof.
    It’s not just a recent phenomenon. I think you need to study more history.

    2. It’s been happening for decades, but finally some are noticing.

    3. It’s not a case of we “could have a problem on our hands” if men’s issues aren’t addressed. We’ve had a massive problem on our hands for some time – witness USA having 1% of it’s population (massively mostly males) in the penal system and rampant institutionalized fatherlessness.
    That’s just to mention 2 issues men face.
    If you’re not aware of it go do some checking.
    I’m sure you’ll find that rather than it being some future problem if not addressed it has already been evident as for all of recent history males have dominated statistics for virtually ALL indices of distress being it homelesness, drug addiction, illiteracy, heart attacks, cancer, reduced longevity, whatever.

    Personally I recognize massive feminist effort to make the male sex disposable.
    I’ve reframed the whole issue a lot though.
    Now as a man I WANT women to stand on their own feet and I WANT to be free of any social pressure to be stuck in the provider protector role.
    At first that was scary as it left me devoid of a self concept.
    Then I asked myself this question – “Now that women are more and more providing for themselves, what can I be?”
    A short while thereafter the answers flew thick and fast – musician, artist, writer, loafer, traveler, etc etc. Indeed one answer burned itself in my mind – whatever I want to be! Wow! Freedom! Emancipation from sex role rigidity!

    By the way, contrary to a view expressed earlier in the thread I don’t think an ALL FEMALE AUDIENCE isn’t a mainstream one.
    I think it’s in fact a terrible sign of a kind of male disposability – gynocentric attitude to think so. Half of the mainstream is missing!

    Also Hanah Rosin and her hubby’s facilitating her son’s silence to make space for her daughters arrogant triumphalism was disgusting.

    The acid test of such assertions is to imagine a TED conference hall full of only men being touted as mainstream, and a father telling his daughter to shut up so his son could crow his sexes superiority.

  10. BS76 Says:

    Notice in the clip about the daughter explaining why she thinks the boys don’t do as well how the dad tells the little boy to shut up. THAT is the sort of thing that’s causing the problem in the first place. It’s free expression this and verbalization that, but when the boys speak up they are minimized and diminished. Folks need to learn more about the various facets of institutionalized misandry in western culture. Only when it’s recognized can it be effectively dealt with. Hell, if spell-check can’t even recognize the word “Misandry” then what’s that say about the rest of society as a whole?

  11. Skeptik Says:

    Yes BS76,
    Those are excellent points you raise.

    Here’s another question I offer to readers (Although I think BS76 won’t need asking) – how blinded and bigoted rather than fair minded and inclusive is the TED community to put on a WOMEN’S ONLY conference in the first place?

  12. hopeless_case Says:

    BS76:

    Notice in the clip about the daughter explaining why she thinks the boys don’t do as well how the dad tells the little boy to shut up.

    I very much doubt that Hanna runs her family that way (silencing her son at the dinner table in deference to her daughter).

    Her daughter was listing observations about how boys were not doing well in school (not paying attention, …). Her son could have said all sorts of valid things in response and letting the clip continue would only have eaten up Hanna’s presentation time (TED presentations are typically pretty short).

    The point of the clip was not to show what a typical conversation in her household looks like (to the bitter end), but to show how boys are struggling and need more help.

    If her son had gone on to propose a solution, or called into question Hanna’s premise that boys are struggling, and Hanna edited it out, then you would have a point. I sincerely doubt that’s what happened.

    The whole atmosphere of the clip was of a family at dinner having a lot of fun performing for the camera, and enjoying mom’s project, not of the men being shut down in some sort of severe anti-male dominating matriarchy.

    You are really reaching.

  13. hopeless_case Says:

    Skeptic:

    I say -

    1. women have had power over men on a number of fronts for a long time.
    It’s nothing new.
    Witness male disposability over the millenia for proof.
    It’s not just a recent phenomenon. I think you need to study more history.

    2. It’s been happening for decades, but finally some are noticing.

    3. It’s not a case of we “could have a problem on our hands” if men’s issues aren’t addressed. We’ve had a massive problem on our hands for some time – witness USA having 1% of it’s population (massively mostly males) in the penal system and rampant institutionalized fatherlessness.
    That’s just to mention 2 issues men face.
    If you’re not aware of it go do some checking.

    I completely agree with your 3 points above.

    I do, however, think the situation has been improving on a number of fronts for men in the last few decades. The improvement in the lives of men has moved at a snails pace, however, to the improvement women’s lives have seen. While the female gender role has been questioned and re-examined a great deal, we’ve barely scratched the surface of the male gender role.

    When the female gender role started to change, the resistance to it posed the question: if women work, then who will raise the children? I think the resistance to opening up the male gender role is: if society can’t freely dispose of the lives of its men as needed, then who will protect us (from war, criminals, natural disasters, having to do nasty/risky jobs, …).

    I think the second question is a much scarier one, and that is why progress for men has been so slow in comparison to progress for women.

    I doubt that Hanna realizes much of this (the historical victimization of men; she strikes me as having typical feminist sensibilities) which is why I give her such high marks for noticing the plight of men at all.

    The temptation to ignore the plight of men is a strong one. Hanna didn’t give into it. She followed her research where it led. Bravo.

  14. Skeptik Says:

    No hopeless case you are the one who is reaching.
    It is what it is.

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